Vintage21 Church

Pastor Tyler · Joined: 08 Feb 2008 Posts: 84 Location: Downtown Raleigh

If I said that, what would you do? Would you call me out? Would you just leave the church and never come back? Would you do it? Paul makes this claim in I Corinthians 11:1 and we will study it together on 3/10/08. So, to get conversation going, take a stab at some of the following:

Why does Paul feel ok saying this?
What does he really mean?
Would you feel ok if I said this? Would you do it?
Do you have the courage to make this claim?
What would it look like if Vintage21 was full of people that lived a life so close to Jesus that they said "Watch me and you will see Jesus?"

***certainly Paul is not trumping Jesus here so don't miss read the context of the passage.
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Pastor Tyler

TheMrs · Joined: 04 Mar 2008 Posts: 8 Location: Downtown Raleigh

The idea makes me uncomfortable but in a way, that is what we already do. To imitate Paul (or you and the elders) is to have a practical application of what it means to be a follower of Jesus. Jesus IS Jesus, so he can't really follow himself. Right? I think that is what Paul means, look at me, I am not Jesus, but this is how you follow.

I don't think I have the courage to say "watch me" at this point. And even if my life was as perfect as humanity can be, I would be nervous to make the claim.

Hao · Joined: 29 Feb 2008 Posts: 26

I'll say it. Watch me. And see me blow it over and over again. But ironically, I think that's the beauty of it all. Our jacked up lives show Christ better IF we are willing to embrace humility and say that whatever good comes from me is from God. Pride is a big enemy in this though. We like to think that we do things by our own strength and so we take the credit for it. I think this is where so many christians fail.

We tend to put ourselves or others on a pedestal and forget that they are human too. We see Paul and imagine a great follower of Christ but forget that he had a thorn in his side too. Whether it was physical or psychological, it had to have manifested itself in his actions from time to time. So what did he do? Well, he boasted about it. 2 Cor 12:1-10 speaks on this but the key part is vs. 9-10:

"9But He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong."

I admit that the idea of someone imitating me is nuts and makes me feel way uncomfortable. (can you imagine 2 crazy asians at the church? j/k) But then I realize, that I'm trying to imitate Christ. And through my weaknesses and countless times of not imitating Christ, I can lift Him up more IF I'm humble enough to boast that I'm just as jacked up as the next guy and then praise God for doing what I can't.

A second thought is this. Whether you say it or not, most people are watching you anyway. It seems that as soon as you admit to being a follower of Christ, people put a target on your back, waiting for you to screw up. Then they can justify why they don't believe in God. All the more reason to boast in our weakness and the sufficiency of Christ so that we can step off the pedestal and raise God up high.

JenniferFarmer · Joined: 05 Mar 2008 Posts: 16 Location: Raleigh, NC

FarmerDaddy · Joined: 05 Mar 2008 Posts: 1 Location: Raleigh, NC

This is another passage in 1Corinthians that I feel helps to put things into context.

1Corinthians 4:14-16
14 I am not writing this to shame you, but to warn you, as my dear children. 15 Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. 16 Therefore I urge you to imitate me.

It seems to me that Paul thinks of the church in Corinth as his children. Therefore, he is taking responsibility for them and their actions by making the statement that they should imitate him, just as children are to imitate their parents.

So, maybe as we develop into real Men and Women in the church we should take more responsibility for those that we bring to know Jesus. If we are imitating Paul, then we are the fathers and mothers of those that come to know Jesus through our actions and maybe we should take some responsibility and encourage them to imitate us.
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William T. Q. Farmer

Lord, give me strength to change the things I can, patience to accept the things I can't, and wisdom to know the difference.

Rob Davis · Joined: 23 Jan 2008 Posts: 89 Location: Raleigh, NC

Eric Butler · Joined: 09 Feb 2008 Posts: 51

I've been thinking about this on a fairly prosaic level, and I've come up with two things:

First, this was directed at a church in Corinth where, it seems, many people would have done well imitating roadkill, because lying quietly on the side of the highway would be more Christlike than what they were up to before. Imitating Paul as a clear tangible example they had actually met would be a vast improvement for most of them.

Second, imitating Jesus is always difficult. He was an itinerant preacher with a mission. But what if you are a stonecarver, or a merchant, or a farmer? Isn't it more useful to have more examples to follow, to show you what parts of what Jesus did are to be imitated by all, and which parts are only for Jesus to do as the Son of God and the atoning sacrifice for the entire world? I feel like this is why the early church ended up naming saints - these people provided examples of faith that were easier to relate to. A saint might be your age, your gender, your profession, your ethnicity - all of which might help you understand how to be the person you are and yet a person of faith.

Rob Davis · Joined: 23 Jan 2008 Posts: 89 Location: Raleigh, NC

Eric Butler · Joined: 09 Feb 2008 Posts: 51

Rob Davis · Joined: 23 Jan 2008 Posts: 89 Location: Raleigh, NC

Eric Butler · Joined: 09 Feb 2008 Posts: 51